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Planning for Tomorrow: Navigating Grief and Legacy with Estate Planning

• Erica Rawls

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Have you ever faced the daunting "business of death" and wished there was a roadmap to navigate it? Join us as Brandy Davenport opens up about her personal journey through loss and the unexpected challenges of managing her father's estate. Alongside attorney Jenny Chavis, we break down the myths of estate planning and discuss why having a plan can be the greatest gift you leave your loved ones.

Our conversation takes a heartfelt turn as we reflect on the profound bond of grief and how it intertwines with the practicalities of estate planning. Through personal stories, we emphasize how a well-organized plan not only relieves the emotional burden but also preserves memories and family ties. This episode serves as a gentle reminder for parents to prepare for the future, ensuring their children are supported during life's inevitable transitions.

Explore the significant role of estate planning in cultivating generational wealth and honoring family wishes. We provide insights into avoiding the pitfalls of dying without a will, the nuances between wills and living trusts, and the peace of mind that comes with clear communication of one's intentions. This episode is a call to action for courageous conversations that secure both financial legacies and cherished family stories.

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Brandi Davenport:

It is devastating to the spirit, but you can't even properly focus on the emotion of what you're carrying Because you've got all these other little needs that should have got to be mined and there are some things you just don't think of until you're in that process.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Sometimes we have to pick and say, listen, I know that this child may be more responsible. We want our children to be able to build generational wealth.

Erica Rawls:

Welcome to another episode of Keeping it Real, where we have real conversations with extraordinary people in multi-million dollar homes. We have an extraordinary episode for you today. Y'all, it's actually heartfelt. You ever get in a situation where you're responsible for taking care of business after the passing of a loved one and you often feel as though you could actually feel a little bit angry, and so they may even you may even feel like they were being selfish because they left you with all of this mess. So we're going to talk about that today, because that's not the intention. It's just not being properly prepared for the business of death. We all have to face it, and it's our responsibility to make sure that we keep things in order for our loved ones so, as you pass away, they can get on to doing the business as quickly as possible, so that they can, too, grieve and remember you with the happy memories that you so choose for them to do. So today, I have two people here with me that are going to shed some light on that Brandy Davenport and attorney Jenny Chavis.

Erica Rawls:

Now, the reason why Brandy's on the show is because she is one of my sorors that I love so much. And we just happened to have a casual conversation about the passing of one of her loved ones in recent years and the challenges that she had to face. So I asked her hey, do you mind being vulnerable about sharing that experience? And she said you know what? Sure, let's do it, because I think it's an important topic. And then the concept all came together and I said you know what? We need to have a profession that's going to be able to shed additional light. She's going to bust some myths about the topic of preparing for death. Grab your wine and some popcorn, because we're diving in. Welcome, ladies.

Brandi Davenport:

Thank you.

Erica Rawls:

Thank you, thank you, yes, yes. So thank you both for being here. Like I really do appreciate you both being here because I think it's an important topic that we need to discuss and a lot of times we try to avoid it as much as possible, and I know you know firsthand right and the trauma that people associate when they talk about death. But first, brandi, I wanted to share, if you will, the conversation a little bit about what brought us to this episode here. Yes, today, yeah.

Brandi Davenport:

So you and I ended up on the phone one night and we started talking about homes and selling homes and in the midst of homes being sold, when someone has passed away. And then I started down a path of sharing with you some of the things that I've been through over the course of the last couple of years, having a series of losses occur, starting in 19 all the way through 2022.

Brandi Davenport:

Yes, and dealing with those and just the different levels of those and the impacts, because you don't realize just how much death impacts you as you're going through the process, and it's not that you have never. For me, I had experienced death before. I'd had experienced death of other family members, of friends through the years, but these were different. They were lifelines and I think that's a different level of the piece that you're dealing with yeah, and the more personal it is, the harder it is to actually absolutely work through absolutely so.

Brandi Davenport:

I go through a process of losing a very close soror unexpectedly. Six months after that, my grandmother passes, she gets sick and within three weeks, we lose her. She lived a strong 90 years. In September of 21, I lost my father unexpectedly I'm his only child and then, a few short months after that, we flash forward to 2022, and we lose my mom's youngest brother, my uncle, who I was very close to.

Brandi Davenport:

So all these things are occurring and, specifically with my father's passing and me being his only child, I'm like OK, I got to plan a funeral, I know who I need to call, I'm going to need to sell his house. I know he's got some bills that need to probably be settled in the midst of selling this house and getting those things together. But there was a lot that came with that, and I was also juggling other folks in our lives that were involved in his life. You were also the emotional support Correct, correct, and it was a lot to carry. And then I'm like but I got to clean this house out, I got to figure all these pieces out, and so what you and I were then discussing was the fact that there is a business aspect to death that we just don't talk about, we don't necessarily prepare for.

Brandi Davenport:

And it's not that we think that we are invincible. We all know that at some point in time, that you know you have your entry date, you have your exit date, you live in between those two days, so we know that it's coming, but even still it knocks you off your feet, whether you see this person struggling and they've been ill, or whether it's something that just happens. It is devastating to the spirit, but you can't even properly focus on the emotion of what you're carrying because you've got all these other little details, you've got to be mindful and there are some things you just don't think of until you're in that process.

Erica Rawls:

And you beautifully coined it as the business of death. Like when I heard, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's exactly what it is. Yeah.

Brandi Davenport:

Yeah, and we just we don't, we don't talk about that piece. And then I saw I saw friends online who were losing loved ones and they're like, look, did you know this part? And they are finding different pieces. And it got like checklist, now Right, and I'm like this is the stuff that we absolutely have to be prepared for, we absolutely have to be prepared for.

Brandi Davenport:

When my grandmother passed and God bless her soul, but she had, like everything mapped out here's the square of the scriptures for the service, here's my old bit, this is where these policies are at. Here's all these different things. And it was like, okay, you gave us the playbook to go and put this everything together. Everything is now set. And so I was able to, you know, be a support to my mom and her siblings as they worked through the process of her services and her burial, but with my father, because he would always joke he'd be like Brandy, I'm living forever and you know that's your dad, right? So sure you're gonna, you know, end up at home chasing nurses, because I know you and this is where we're going to be, and my dad was always there. So when that occurred, it was like, what do I do? And then I said, okay, wait, you have some sense of what needs to occur and I'm thankful to the funeral home, winfield, reverend Tate, and they took care of me without question.

Brandi Davenport:

But everything was kind of put together in that space but I'm like there's still all these other pieces. He had a car. I had worked through the process of selling his home. Their house was furnished, he had a fully loaded garage, like there were all these different aspects and I'm like this is heavy. Yeah, it is heavy, yeah, it's so heavy.

Brandi Davenport:

And I couldn't take the moment to fully have that breakdown of you've just lost your father Because I'm trying to take care of everything else and again, I'm an only child it's not to say that I didn't have family in the wings and right there saying, brandy, what can we do? How can we? But there are some things you simply just have to take care of and you just kind of have the space to do it Right and it's trying to figure those pieces out. So it's going through that. But then you know you finally sell the house and you have that moment of the weight is lifted, but then you're living in a new space now because you've got the grief that started with you, but then you have the grief that continues.

Brandi Davenport:

And it's the grief that never leaves you. It's the grief that hits in those random moments that you are not expecting it's. You hear a song and you're like, oh, there's my day. Or you may bump into a friend of his who immediately goes into how much they miss him, but you're like, yeah, you got to write the missing too, but I might not be able to carry that from you in that moment because I'm going through my own stuff still.

Brandi Davenport:

So it is definitely a challenging piece, and because you also have to consider the fact that I've got kids and now have lost their grandfather. I've got a husband who has now lost a father-in-law he was close with, and so you're also juggling all those different pieces of emotion. But you still have to account for the business. Like, no one told me I would still be dealing with taxes two years after the fact for him Exactly. And I'm like, what do you mean? I still have to deal with this. I took care of it, but I was just I wasn't in that mindset of, well, he did work up and sell. So, yeah, mindset of well, he did work up until. So, yeah, I got to make sure that everything is in order there.

Brandi Davenport:

It definitely is a life-changing thing. I think it also makes you it makes you just take stock and inventory of your own agency or all of self and saying what do I have in order? What do I need to do? How do I make this easier when that time comes? Right? You know it's not again. People don't want to talk about it, people don't want to delve into it because it is. It's painful, it is uncomfortable, it's very uncomfortable to have these conversations, but I think you have to have them. You have to have them so that you can be as best prepared as possible. Doesn't mean that it's not going to hurt. It doesn't mean that you're not going to go through some challenges or some tribulations, but you can at least try to have some type of plan in place. And I know it sounds morbid. I feel like a lot of people feel like it sounds morbid and they just don't want to talk about it. But you have to talk about it.

Erica Rawls:

Attorney Chavez. I mean this is a great segue. I mean her story.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

It is rings with so much truth when you said about just putting things in place and ultimately it is an act of love. Right, right.

Erica Rawls:

It is an act of love. It is an act of love.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

People think that it is about that morbid feeling where they don't want to think about the details because they know that they're going to a place. They may not want to think about their own mortality, but at the end of the day, we know that that is a road that all of us have to take and ultimately, you're giving your loved ones a gift yeah Right, a gift of love. And at the one presentation where we met, I said my parents gave me the gift of grieving, and what I mean by that is I had the space to grieve their loss without having the added burden or responsibility of figuring out the business, because they were so organized. They had a plan in place. They knew exactly how they wanted their service to go. Now, granted, there's a huge age difference. When my father passed away when I was 14, obviously I wouldn't have been involved, but watching my mother being able to move to that period, that was a gift, yeah.

Erica Rawls:

I love that, that that term, the gift of grieving, that's the best way to put it, cause people put, like you said, mortality, they connect that with it because, yeah, you are going to pass away and they don't want to think about or face the fact that I'm not going to live forever. So just removing that stigma that hey, I don't want to talk about it and again I think it's just my opinion is it's very selfish not to agree to do it. So the gift of grieving is being selfless.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Yeah for sure it's being selfless because ultimately what happens? I've seen clients who come in and they're in the middle of grieving because grieving is a process and people think I'm just going to cry until the funeral and they come home, eat the repass and be over it. That's not what grief looks like. No, it could be years in the making to process through it. And people are. They grow with resentment when they are burdened with the business of putting affairs in order that should have been in place before the person passed away. That part, I mean. It is heart-wrenching to sit across from a client with tears streaming down their face and they're angry at the loved one because they're like I don't know where to find the insurance policy, I don't know if there was a will, I don't know who owns this, they are clueless to try to put the pieces together and it turns into sadness, from sadness into anger. Yeah, and that's like you don't want your loved ones to have to go through that. No, that's not. You don't want them to jump into that aspect of grief. So having a plan in place certainly makes it easier.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Um, what we were talking about before we recorded was that I went to my homecoming this weekend at hampshire university. It was great hadn't been back in 30 years and of course all the memories of being a student there were just flooding back. But also the memories of my mom flooded back to, you know, dropping me off graduation, those type of things. So when I got home last night I actually started to cry because of just the memory of her. And that's over 10 years ago since she passed, and so grieving may take years to process through. It's not a matter of getting stuck, but some things will just trigger it. So knowing that things were in place and I didn't have to have this lingering resentment certainly helps the grieving process. So I didn't get stuck.

Brandi Davenport:

And you know, I would say too, that to know that level of grief and still experience it because you live with grief, it doesn't, I don't think it leaves you, no, but to know that means you knew an immense amount of love from her, exactly, yeah, agreed. So I always think about it that way. To have someone on this side of heaven love me that much, right, how can I not be in a place where I'm not going to have something make me think of him? And some days it may be a smile. You start laughing about it. You might look up and say, hey, mom. Or I'll say, hey dad.

Brandi Davenport:

Yep, some days it can be a song and you might start tearing up because you're like I remember we took this car trip and this is right planned. There are several songs that I'll play because he, he had me listening to, like all the good Motown, right. So that's the music I'll be playing when I'm traveling and that stuff will come up. But it's like I had that much love in my life. How fortunate am I, and I still have it.

Erica Rawls:

He's just not here, right.

Brandi Davenport:

I say, when people pass, the communication clearly is not both in the same physical space. But communication doesn't end, right, you still get signs in some way, shape or form. Whether it is that, whether it's a light flickering somewhere, right, whether it's a feeling you get in the moment, there's still some level of communication, right. So you know, it's all a part of this, it's all a part of this. No, it's all a part of this, it's all a part of this.

Brandi Davenport:

And the one thing I also say to people is the natural order of life is that we are going to bury our parents. That's what we at least expect, right, and it's that we are going to bury our parents. So these are things we probably should start thinking about in conversations about earlier Mm-hmm, that what we have, or until it happens, you know, I know that my dad was not going to live on in this earth without me and on this earth. So you know, I just right. All of that stuff just kind of comes to and it also makes me think, as a mom, what do I want? To make sure it's a place for when my kids get older, and hopefully one day I hit 95 or more, right, and they're like OK, we now have to deal with this from our parents. What can we do to ease it? Again, it's not going to be an easy process, but what can we do to ease it?

Erica Rawls:

Right Attorney Chambers. So I love it. How can we? Yeah, yeah, that is so good.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

That is so good. I love it. We especially said you know, as your role as a mother, thinking about how you want to make sure this easy for your children, and a lot of times moms do struggle with what will it look like for my children to process through this? Yeah, and I always encourage them. You know your children best, better than themselves.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

So when you're thinking about the person who is going to handle the business of your passing, Maybe it's not your children, maybe it isn't, maybe it's a trusted friend, maybe it is a soror, maybe it is someone who goes to your church who can at least handle administering our affairs. I see moms struggling with when they have more than one child, picking the children and they end up putting all their children as the executor and so you can have everything go to your children and be split. You know they're the beneficiaries, but when it comes to the person who's going to administer our estates, maybe we don't want to have two, three, four children who have to work together, all agree and all show up to court at the same place, at the same time Knowing they don't get along.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Knowing that they get along. There's one who's going to like, want to sleep in and not want to be bothered. There's one who's going to show up 15 minutes early, like, and so it causes arguments, it causes a rift. Most of my clients on a state administration who are the executors, are in situations where they're fighting with their siblings. And I know, as moms, like we don't want our children to fight, we're hoping we tell them you know when I pass, you know, get to get along. But that's not reality. Even put it in a letter.

Erica Rawls:

Do not fight. Yeah, but we remember our kids they fought over who was going to get the last Pop-Tart. You know what?

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

I mean Like we fought over that kind of stuff and so it's not necessarily that they're going to be money grubbing or anything like that but, they may not agree.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

So sometimes we have to pick and say listen, I know that this child may be more responsible. Usually it does end up being the oldest child, but sometimes it's the one who's most responsible. Or maybe one child works in finances or taxes or has that more, has a bent towards being more administrative. Maybe that's the best pick the gift of administration that's what I was going to say.

Erica Rawls:

You want the person that has the gift of administration, right, because watching clients go through this, yes. You need someone that's going to be able to reel them in step by step, emotionally, check them sometimes Correct, you know what I mean. Check in. I should say yeah, and then, okay, you need to do this, this, this, this and this. So, if you don't have the gift of administration, don't ask for the job, right, don't ask for that job.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Don't ask for that job, don't get upset, like if you know that you don't know how to balance a checkbook, let alone find your checkbook right now. Maybe you don't need to be the one serving in that role. Yeah, like, maybe there's another thing that we can give to that child to be in charge of, but perhaps the administrative things, maybe that's not the role for them.

Erica Rawls:

So let's take a step back, so let's bust some of the myths that are around why we should not have a will.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Right, okay. So number one a lot of times spouses will think I don't need a will, everything goes to my spouse. I don't need a will. Well, the myth is that let's say there are pieces of property that are solely in your name, like, maybe there's a bank account, maybe there's one bank account that the spouse has, maybe you guys have a joint account that you use to pay bills, so forth. Well, if the spouse's name is not on the account or if there's nothing indicated that the money in the bank goes to the spouse no will then the bank is not going to talk to the spouse.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

And I had a situation where the husband and wife put money the bulk of the money, I'm talking about tens of thousands of dollars in a bank account in the wife's name. She passed, and so he needed to get to that money to pay the bills for the house and also pay for her funeral. The bank would not talk to him. There was no will, which then appointed him as executor, so he had to go through the arduous process of now being named as the executor, which is called intestate. When a person dies without a will, it's possible to get it done, but it's again one more added court proceeding, one more added administrative thing just to get to the funds to then start the grieving process of having the funeral.

Erica Rawls:

So this is in the event that the spouse's name is not already on the bank account. Should your spouse pass away, then you may not have access to their assets, correct?

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Correct. So if there's a will in place, then at least the person can. Then they still have to go through probate with getting appointed as the executor, but it's a much easier process. And then it's a quicker process than go into the bank and show that you have the letter from the court saying, yes, I am the administrator, and then have access to the funds.

Erica Rawls:

I don't know about anyone that's listening, but if you are married and you just heard that and you're not a co-borrower or co-signer or whatever, when any of your financial assets and your loved one passes away, that is going to get it done today. Get it done today at the very least.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

At the very least, and so there's even a provision. So let's say, if you don't want the time between getting an appointment or getting the will set up, getting it notarized, so forth, you can at least go to the bank and say I want my account to be payable upon death to my spouse. So, lease is like a beneficiary designation on your bank account. That will lease in the meanwhile. That's something that's easy. You don't have to worry about probate with that. So that's something you can do today. So you talk about the takeaway.

Erica Rawls:

That's something we can do today and get in touch with our banks to care of that. That's awesome, okay, so what? That's a great one. So why do people resist taking care of the business of death while they're here on earth?

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

yeah, I, you know, I was shocked at how many people were having it as superstition, like I've had people come in and say that they felt that as soon as they get a will that they're going to die. And the husband that I just told you about, with his wife, she actually was diagnosed with stage four cancer and he kept begging her to get a will, and so she was saying you know what? You're trying to kill me earlier, thinking that by getting the will would speed up the process. So she never did and it was the cancer that killed her. It wasn't a will, it wasn't a piece of paper, and so it is.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

We're just living in fear, and it's a matter of starting with changing mindset. As a matter of changing mindset, you know, I know our parents and grandparents thought of generational wealth. They may not have called it that Right, but we are now living in a time when we are aware of it and the need to build it. Yeah, and estate planning is the secret sauce to building generational wealth, because now we're having conversations about how to plan for a money beyond ourselves, and if we want our children to be able to build generational wealth, we've got to have bold, daring conversations, courageous conversations about this is going to happen, but here's the plan. I expect you to now take this money and invest it. Don't go out and buy Jordans or don't go out and buy whatever. Use this money, have fun, go on a trip, but now take it and invest it. Do something with it.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Because, I'm passing it on to you for that purpose.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, so someone meets with you and, brandy, you can ask questions too, because we're going to take advantage of a professional being here. So someone meets with you, like what can they expect? Because I think a lot of the fear has to do with having conversations that they're not ready to have. So how do you mentally prepare them for the conversation and then actually having that conversation?

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

It really starts with part of what we talked about today, about the gift that they're giving to their children.

Brandi Davenport:

Yeah.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

And also their own personal assurance that they're going to be organized. And I do tell them that it is not unusual for them to come in and to feel nervous, like that's a normal feeling coming in. But I do assure them that the end of the process, when we have it notarized and everything is done, you are going to have a sense of relief, you're going to feel good and so just kind of reassure them that this is what the process will look like. I tell them ahead of time, like these are the meetings we're going to have, these are the goals we're gonna accomplish, this is what you're gonna have At the end of it. I try to make the atmosphere sort of like where we're sitting today, that you feel comfortable. So even the conference room does not look like a conference room in a law firm. It looks like something spa-like, something very comfortable, because I want them to feel comfortable going through the process.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Then we talk about their goals, we talk about their family and you know, whenever anyone will talk about their children or their parents, their siblings, it does help the wall to come down and they're a little bit vulnerable and I just listen to them. Yeah, like, what do you want to accomplish, what are your hopes and dreams, what are your values and then? So we then talk about that, building the rapport and relationship, then we do the business aspect of it and then we also talk about intangible goals. One thing I love to do with clients is encourage them to record their intangible assets. What stories do you want your children to know? If you had a conversation with them or you wanted to tell them why you love them or what you see in them, what stories about yourself, like the time when you went off to college, what would you want them to know and to record it?

Erica Rawls:

And that's included with the documents- yeah, that got me choked up just thinking about it.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

It happens every time. Everyone reacts either as chills, yeah.

Erica Rawls:

I was going to say I have chills but that's part of the gift right.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

As a person who has lost both of her parents, I'm going to tell you I would give anything to hear my parents' voice Anything. And my mentor, she'd recommend doing it because her father, who had passed away, had left a voicemail before passing, something like you know hey, lex, give me this Dad, give me a call. And so she had saved on her phone for years and somehow it accidentally- got deleted.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

And so that's why she encourages just encourage clients to do it, because it is the intangible Beyond getting stuff. Family members will want to have that piece of you, yeah, so this is what we try to do.

Erica Rawls:

I love that. So, then, I want to encourage everyone, at the very least, to have a will, and yet I do know that we also have an instrument available to us called the living trust.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Right.

Erica Rawls:

Do you mind sharing the difference between the two?

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Sure. So a will is basically a document that tells the court how you want your assets to be distributed and who will be the person who's going to do so. Because a will has to go through probate. Probate is the court process court how you want your assets to be distributed and who will be the person who's going to do so. Because a will has to go through probate Probate is the court process, so it can take anywhere from nine to 12 months. Sometimes it takes a few years, but at least is the basic estate planning tool to get our affairs in order. It can simplify things and it's telling the world. Here are my intentions.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

With a trust, it is something that can avoid probate and you're putting items into the trust that will then pass. It takes maybe a few months for it to do so. It's not public, like you don't have to go to court, there's no court proceeding, and it can be administered based upon your instructions. To the family, like, say, if you have minor children, it's going to say well, when my children get to be this age, this is how much I want to go to them. After this point, the remainder of the balance will go to them. It will also include what happens when, if we should ever become incapacitated. So before death, it gives instructions. It says who is going to be the administrator of the trust. So it is an excellent tool to avoid the probate process. It simplifies it. So it is an excellent tool to avoid the probate process. It simplifies it. There are some tax benefits. It doesn't completely alleviate them because you know Uncle Sam is going to get the money you got to get his money.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Yeah, got to get the money, but at least it's outlining your wishes in a very specific way. It outlines the goals. It reduces a lot of the hassle, a lot of the administrative burden that comes along with probate.

Erica Rawls:

Wow, I think that's so. Would you prefer a will or the living trust, or does it depend on? It really depends on assets.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Okay, it depends on what you have, so, but I do prefer a trust because of just the ease of how it will all pass. Because there are so many steps that go into probate, there's so many forms that have to be filled out. You have to make sure that you're sending everything to the register of will and to other state agencies With a trust. It is, here are my wishes and the administrator just passes it on as instructed.

Brandi Davenport:

I went through. Probate.

Brandi Davenport:

My dad didn't have a will. Now I knew where everything was in the house. I knew where to find things. He was retired military, so I knew where all the forms were that I needed and how to contact them appropriately. But I did go through the probate process and with that then as far as then settling the affairs. Something I would love for you to touch on is just some of the different steps and things you have to do.

Brandi Davenport:

I remember putting a notice. I want to say in Penn Live there was a Dauphin County reporter. Yeah, I put a notice there and that way if he owed debt to anyone they could not say that they were not properly notified of his passing and of their being in a state and that type of thing. And so I did those types of follow-ups. I had the conversation with the bank because I was not on the account, so I had to go and get that short certificate and come back and that was for everything.

Brandi Davenport:

And you know, again, my father kept saying I'm going to live forever. And you know, the little girl in my head was like of course my dad's going to live forever. But I remember him saying to me at one point, because I had said to him we had just gone, I had just gone through the loss of my grandmother and I'm like Dad, I just we need to just make sure. He's like just one, three, five go, just let everything go. And I'm like they can't do that, like he had just let everything go. And he was joking, that's just the nature of his personality and who he was.

Brandi Davenport:

But I thought about that and I'm like there are some families that do have to just let it go because they don't know all the steps and they may not have the capacity to take all those steps. And so I think what was helpful for me was having an idea of because I knew someone who had kind of been through some things but also trying to just have that checklist of all right, make sure you do this, make sure you do that, make sure you do that. And I think those are pieces that are not talked about enough and I've seen so many other people you know in my life who have lost parents, lost other loved ones, and then they're like I didn't know that all these steps were involved. Yeah, and I'm overwhelmed, yes, and it's. It becomes. I don't want to say that it becomes burdensome, but you can't take off of your life to go deal with the business of death exactly because they don't talk about at the dinner table, like hey, get an estate attorney no right, we don't have that conversation, you can get your business in order

Erica Rawls:

authentically exactly as you start accumulating wealth. It's going to make sense for this to happen, exactly right.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

So so just kind of go reverse, or what you said. Yeah, so let's start with a scenario where the person does not have a will and they're at that point of overwhelm.

Brandi Davenport:

And.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

I talked about how sometimes you're in the middle of the grieving and you get resentful because you now have all these steps to do and you don't know how to do it. You don't know how to do inheritance taxes, you don't know how to do estate taxes, or don't want to do it, don to do it, don't want to do it, like who wants to right. And so what happens? Let's say the scenario I talked about. Actually, I do know a young man whose father passed away. Um, his mother and his father were at divorce, so really the responsibility then fell on him. He was overwhelmed. He hasn't to this day. It's been years since his father's passed away and, um, there was a bank account that has money sitting in there and so when the money is not claimed, it then goes into the treasury of the state. Unclaimed property, unclaimed property, and I thought last time I checked I want to say $70 million worth of unclaimed property in Pennsylvania, in Pennsylvania, billions. Go search your name, go search your family's name. Yeah, patresurygov.

Brandi Davenport:

You found a couple of dollars.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

I didn't find any for me, but I thought for some other folks in my family. I was like y'all, I found some.

Erica Rawls:

You found some money, like my mother's last commonwealth check.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Wow, right, like just didn't know, it didn't know about it. So it was something that was sitting out there. And you because they did like a years after she passed, they did like a promo, like hey, just check to see. And so we happened to find this one thing, had no idea and um, so the money is sitting there banking out and so it will revert to the government because it's never been claimed. So that's an issue where we're losing out on assets and wealth because it reverts to the government. So that's issue number one.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

When a person dies without a will, yes, you had to go through you know initi, initiating the, you know probate process. It applies for with a will or without, it's still a court process you have to go through. But the government, there's a statute that outlines how the assets are divided. So if there's only a spouse, obviously everything will go to the spouse. That's what the court will say. If there are children, there's a certain portion that will go to children, a certain portion that will go to spouses. If there are siblings, it keeps being broken down by percentages and fractions, and so then money then goes to parents if they're living parents. So there might be a situation where you may not want money to go to your brother. Let's just say, but there's no will. Now there's a statute that says there's a chunk of money that will now go to the brother that you wanted to disinherit. Where will would clearly outline that, for example? So then there are governmental agencies. There's a statute that will outline intestate laws. That's what it means to die without a will.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

When you die with a will, you still have to go through probate. But you have outlined what your specific wishes are. I want all of these items, all these assets, to now go to my children, or everything to go to my spouse. So you may not be able to give certain designations, like you know, if the person graduates from college or something like that, but at least the will will say it now goes to children. So that is the importance of having a will in place.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

I've had clients who have disinherited people for whatever reason. That's their personal business and it has to be outlined in a will if that's what your wishes are. Otherwise, if it's not there, there's a possibility, depending upon the person's relation to you, they could elect to get the share. So it really depends upon that. So that is why it is so important to have a plan in place so that your intentions are lived out after you pass away. And I think a lot of times we do think, well, I'm just going to live forever, or it'll just all go to my child or my spouse, but you're creating a situation where they have to do extra work just to get what you're hoping will go to them.

Erica Rawls:

So how do we ensure that the wishes are actually executed upon someone's passing with the will? Is that like the safeguard, or is there situations where it can happen, where there's a wish that wasn't executed because of something that happened Like we truly protect?

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

it. There's a certain level of protection, you know, because if you at least have it documented in a will, now obviously there's opportunity for people to contest what's in a will, to say there may have been pressure on the person when they made it or the person wasn't in the right state of mind. Now it's a huge or high burden for a person to get over if they're making that claim to you know, contest the will, but nevertheless it then impedes the probate process. It delays it even more because now the court is really getting involved, because you now have to litigate the issue to demonstrate whether the person was or was not in the right mind at the time they made the will.

Erica Rawls:

Brandi, I have a personal question. So, since the passing of loved ones that didn't have their the will in place, have you started any steps?

Brandi Davenport:

So my everything for my father had been processed. I was on that immediately when he passed. He passed in September of 21.

Erica Rawls:

So I'm talking about for you and for me and my family.

Brandi Davenport:

Yes, so we actually have been having that conversation yeah now, but here's the thing. I dealt with an illness.

Brandi Davenport:

It's been years now, but years ago, I dealt with an illness and I looked at my husband when we were in the midst of that and I said, and our, and at that time we only had our son. He was about 18 months old. He's's now 17. He just turned 17 last week. But I said, if this doesn't go the way that we want this to go. And my husband was like I'm not having this conversation with you right now. And it wasn't that he was not trying to be there in that moment, but it was overwhelming of like what do you mean? We haven't been married that long. We have a lot I'm not having. You're going to be fine and, by the grace of God, yes, I was, I am, but I remember having that conversation.

Brandi Davenport:

But since then we have lost his father, we've lost, you know, the folks and his grandfather and his grandmother. We've lost members of my family as well. And so, yeah, now we do have the conversations and we're also very transparent with our kids when we're dealing with some things, simply because there are things, health wise, that I feel like we find out about, not necessarily because we had a conversation growing up. It's more so. Oh, that person has high blood pressure, or this person in the family deals with diabetes, but we don't really talk about what that looks like in life for them, right, we don't have that conversation.

Brandi Davenport:

So, as we have gotten older and we deal with our own things, we are very transparent with the kids with a lot, of, a lot of stuff and we're like OK, these are the things that we want to have in place, this is what we want to do. Is everything done? No, so I'm not really getting your card before we leave, because it just it makes sense and we I don't know what tomorrow holds. You know, again, you don't want to be morbid, that's not where you want to go, but the reality is none of us know what the next day or the next week or the next month or the next year is going to bring. So you absolutely want to make sure that your things are in place. And for me, I've got teenagers, so I don't have grown kids yet. They're growing, but they are not grown. And even once they become grown and I think about this with my mom and all that she does- you know as being a support for us.

Brandi Davenport:

I'm like we're grown and still dependent on my mom and his mom. We're grown and still dependent on my mom and his mom. We're looking for our moms to be able to tap in right when we need them to, so we want to be able to do that for the kids. So, yes, the short answer is we are working on those things, but, no, it's not all finalized. And you would think that as soon as all that happened, that would have been the jump.

Brandi Davenport:

But as soon as all that happened and I had that moment to breathe, I just took a breath, but then I was also in the space of grief will mess with you in physical ways that you deny. That's true. Yeah, you don't realize how much you are carrying until you aren't the person that you were prior to that loss. You go through a metamorphosis yourself when you're in the midst of grief and it gets very heavy and it gets very raw. You may find yourself being a little bit more standoffish from those that you know that love, you care about you, but you may not be in a space to be able to be around that energy, because you're just trying to understand your own energy right now and trying to shift and navigate some things and so all of that.

Brandi Davenport:

Then I had to go through that process, like I got through the business of all of my dad's and hers, and then it was like, okay, you now feel very weird, that's the best way I can describe it. I felt off, yeah, not yourself, yeah, for a period of time I really felt off because I was processing everyone's stuff. At that point and I'm like, and again, these are lifelines, these are folks that knew me before I even entered the world and so they play an important part, absolutely, absolutely. So processing that piece even more difficult, and I think anyone that has had a loss would probably say something. There's a different level of living in that stage. So at that point I'm like I can't be about this business here now, because now I got to focus on how to get back to me and that was not an overnight, that wasn't overnight. That took some time. It does take a while, yeah.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, just experiencing someone that I was close to most recently. It does take some time, but that was the most profound, you know, loss that I had outside of my grandfather. So to actually go through that experience it wasn't by accident. I don't think that that seminar took place, that I actually met you, actually met you, and I literally text my husband's like hey, babe, we need to talk about the business of death. I use it all the time now because of you, but then also I want to start using, you know, the gift of grieving. That's what we need to do. So, yeah, so you are on our list too. I'm not ashamed to say we weren't even thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, not even thinking about it.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

But you know what I love that you guys are having the conversation with your spouses and sometimes it takes one spouse to just say just come along, put this on your calendar. Yeah, we're doing this. You know you want to do it when you're outside the space of grieving, like you don't want to be making major decisions while you're under that yeah but take them by the hand and say we're going to do it.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Yeah, and then when you go, you know professional that you trust and you feel like I have a good vibe with this person, it's a comfortable situation. Then hopefully then they're taking over to say we're going to get through this. You know, some spouses come in, they are trepidatious, they're a little hesitant, but then you want the professional to be able to say we're going to talk about some things. Yeah, it's going to be okay, let's just get the plan in place. And here's why. And then when we start talking about all the situations that could happen by not having it in place, you're just like, okay, all right, let's just get it done, yeah so okay for the person that is in the middle of taking care of business and also grieving.

Erica Rawls:

What's the advice that you would give them? Like is it too late to retain an attorney? Or what if they can't afford it? Let's talk about affordability too, right, because I run into a lot of clients that just don't have the financial means to hire someone. So they're asking, hey, erica, like what do we do? I literally send them to Dauphin County so they can register and have the video, you know, appointment to get their short certificate and try to be that emotional support. But is it ever too late to retain someone? And is there a way that they can actually reach out to you and just, I don't know, reduce the burden, the financial burden?

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Yeah, so I think it's always start with the conversation because it may not cost as much as you think. It is Okay when it comes to the state administration. So I never do hourly fees because a lot of times people will think I don't want to call her because I'm now on the clock.

Erica Rawls:

Like I've had 50 for 15 minutes. Oh my gosh.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

So I have people like you won't even say hello, they're just like speed talk. Oh damn, like you know, I'm the clock, we're just talking, it's okay. So I do flat fees for everything. And then for estate administration is really by percentage of what the estate would be. So it is. You know, have the conversation because it may be less than what you think. And then, honestly, walking with a professional through it is always going to be cheaper than having to fix a problem. Okay, right, so say, if you get down the road and it becomes litigation, when you have to start litigating something, it is going to be quadruple the price of getting something in place. Yeah, so you want to be able to at least be able to at least talk to someone, just to see Don't, don't think about it, because it's always going to be worse than what you think, but it's never too late.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, it is never too late. Never too late, wow, I mean, I really enjoyed this conversation because, as of late, I even think I've put a TikTok video out about the number of people that I'm interacting with that feel as though they have the burden of taking care of their parents' estates. They literally just want to walk away and abandon the property. That's the other thing we're dealing with. From the real estate perspective. We're dealing with people that are renters and their parents may have, they own a property, and it may not even be in the best condition, right, and it may be. They don't even know the first thing about taking care of an asset and what to do. They're just like, well, I'd rather just walk away, especially if there's a mortgage on it. Right, and through a process, I realized that if a loved one has mortgage insurance on the property and they pass away, that's what the mortgage insurance is gonna cover the outstanding. Yeah.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Yeah so I would love to share a story with you about the implications of walking away, please. So during COVID, my siblings and I got letters from attorney an attorney in virginia and we were calling each other is this legit? Like what is it? Of course they're all asking me, jenny, what is this? And so come to find out that my mother's family owned essentially a mountain in virginia like property in.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Virginia and for generations. There was no will, taxes hadn't been paid. So now developers had come in to purchase it. Now no one in my family the two remaining siblings of my mother had no interest nor ability to hire the attorney to contest it, to go to litigation, to buy the property whatever it is, and so the decision was made that we were going to give it up. So I got a check for like $47. I think my aunt maybe she got 200 bucks out of it both my aunts or something and so the property is in Northern Virginia, not too far from Arlington, alexandria.

Erica Rawls:

Oh, dmv area right.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Yeah, booming, so booming area which would be ideal for commuters to the DC, alexandria, arlington area. Which means I'm sure the developers are going to make millions of dollars off of this property because generations never had a will, never went through probate, never claimed the property, never did anything, just said I'm going to walk away from it. And so, now that we keep having the mindset of walking away from assets, we're never going to build generational wealth, because that's what it's? Just snowball, each generation getting wealthier and wealthier, and wealthier. Because plans have been in place, conversations were had and now there's a direct path for our next generation to be able to be better off than what we are. And there is a cost to not planning. There is a cost to just walking away. I know people are grieving, I know you are grieving, but don't just walk away from it. Talk to someone, ask the questions, listen to podcasts like this, get the information before you make the decision.

Brandi Davenport:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it makes sense. And I would say too, even if you've got life insurance, still go talk to the attorney. Yes, like Attorney Chapis. Yes, still go have the conversation.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, forget it.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Don't just, yeah, do not weigh on the life insurance. It's good for a thing, but it's not the whole. It's not the whole thing. It's not the whole thing it's a piece.

Erica Rawls:

This is really good. These are the conversations that we need to have. We need to continue having. So I appreciate you, um, because, yes, our this platform, this particular podcast, focuses on people wanting to live intentionally, living a purpose driven life right, building wealth right. They're passionate about just being the best version that they possibly can be, and part of that is taking care of business. So thank you for coming on, thank you for sharing your story and coming on. I appreciate you both. Are there any last words that you'd like to share with our listeners?

Brandi Davenport:

Watch the podcast and then watch it again and then share it with everyone in your network, right, because this is it's stuff that we all are going to have to deal with at some point. Yeah, so it, I think it's right on time. Yep and contact her, because I am.

Attorney Jenni Chavis:

Excellent. Don't wait, take action. Those are my final words. Do not wait, I love it.

Erica Rawls:

If there was something that resonated with you, please share it in the comments, because we do share the comments with all of our guests, and if there's a question that we can't answer, guess what? We have a professional sitting sitting right here waiting to answer the question. This is the place where we're vulnerable, only because we want to make sure that we're able to get to the root of the issue to solve it right, and I need to thank Landmark Homes for allowing us to sit in this amazing, beautiful home. A tour was going to be separate. If you're listening, you got to come out to YouTube so you can see it, because you can't hear. It was going to be separate. If you're listening, you got to come out to YouTube so you can see it, cause you can't hear it. You got to see it right. Thank you to Top Construction, allstate Insurance and Fidelis Mortgage, as well as my own real estate business, because because of them, we're able to fund these episodes. Until next time, keep keeping it real.

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Erica Rawls

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